Rachel Allen (00:00.462)
Perfect timing. I love that. I didn't mean to keep talking. My cat was, gnawing on the Christmas lights behind me before this. So I was like, you should, you know, go before that. Cause I just imagine like, you know, in the background of the thing. Yeah. Like sparking.
Teri Holland (00:01.453)
Great timing. Thankfully.
On us.
Teri Holland (00:13.483)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (00:17.198)
and they start like flashing.
Yeah, I have dogs so I get it. Every once in while right before recording they want to run in and I'm like, nope, not right now. Now is not the time for you to play in here. Not happening. Yeah, luckily Riverside filters everything out so we won't hear it on the recording. I don't even know if you can hear it through the mic but I can hear him. It is what it is. It is what it is. Okay, so welcome Rachel. Welcome back to the show.
Rachel Allen (00:44.472)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (00:52.142)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you again.
Teri Holland (00:55.093)
Yeah, I'm excited to have you on and and I'm excited to talk about what we're talking about, which is how to become a guest on other podcasts. Now, you've had a lot of success with this, so I am very excited to talk with you about it because you are clearly an expert in this area. You appear on over 50 podcasts a year, which I think is absolutely mind blowing. And where I'd like to start is at what point did you realize that
podcast guesting, wasn't just a nice piece of exposure, but actually something that could help you generate revenue in your business.
Rachel Allen (01:33.698)
Well, to tell you that I have to expose like a little bit of a mistake I made in business, which I'm totally fine with, is normally I am like, I am so on data tracking. track like 13 plus metrics every week in my business. And so I, when I started a podcast guesting and really focusing on it about two years ago, I was like, I'm going to be like tracking this. You know, I want to make sure I'm getting an ROI, but I ended up enjoying it so much that I didn't even bother. I was just like, this is great. Let me talk to everybody.
Teri Holland (01:39.614)
okay.
Teri Holland (02:00.147)
Rachel Allen (02:02.508)
So it was really only, gosh, end of last year, I think when I was preparing my talk for podcasting made simple live, that I actually went back and looked at the stats and I was like, I'm talking to over 50 people a year. got like 1.8 million listens in the past year alone. You know, I would have never thought it because it worked so well.
Teri Holland (02:16.397)
you
Amazing. That's incredible. So now, like now you are tracking it, what are the results that you see? What are you getting from being on all of these shows?
Rachel Allen (02:23.97)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (02:35.258)
well, I've had an uptick in clients coming in from new audiences. I actually signed a client the other day from a podcast I did six years ago and quite frankly, I'd forgotten that I did. but yeah, she had listened to it and she was like, I didn't even like, just send me a cart link. I don't even need to talk to you. I just know I need to work with you based on that. And I was like, well, that's pretty cool. and
Teri Holland (02:44.013)
Woo.
Teri Holland (02:56.437)
amazing.
Rachel Allen (02:57.654)
Yeah, it's really turned into a really great source of like a really great pipeline, especially since my business is primarily referral based. It's like, let me take that referral to the next dimension and have now all these lovely podcast hosts who are like, Hey, check out Rachel. She's cool.
Teri Holland (03:12.365)
Yeah, I love that. And I love that this came from a podcast you did six years ago, because it's something I always say about podcasts is one of the most beautiful things about it is that podcasts live forever. They don't get lost in the algorithm. People can find that episode anytime, land on it, and then decide, hey, I wanna work with Rachel. And that's one of the powerful things about podcasting. So I'm happy to hear that that's working for you.
Rachel Allen (03:19.448)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (03:27.533)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (03:40.43)
Is that me too?
Teri Holland (03:41.471)
Yeah, yeah, I bet. So how would you say that you approach podcast guesting differently than say, using other visibility tools like social media or public speaking or any other avenues that are out there? How are you approaching podcasting differently?
Rachel Allen (04:01.879)
So I think there's two main differences with this versus the other types of marketing I do. And the first one is it's very much a one-to-one experience, even though the effect is one to many. So I'm super introverted. I know it doesn't make sense. I talk to people all the time, but I can talk to one person forever, but I don't really want to be in big groups. And so instead of having to, you know, go up on a stage or do a networking event, which is exhausting for me, or stay beyond social media all the time, I can just talk to
Teri Holland (04:17.037)
You
Rachel Allen (04:31.701)
you and then be like, cool, I had a nice call with Terry. Awesome. And then that goes out to a bunch of people. So it's one to one while being one to many. And then the other thing is I think most people approach podcast guesting as an exercise in visibility and it certainly gets you that. But I think the real difference is the relationship building. So people don't think like, I'm going on this to make new friends. They think I'm going on this to broadcast to new audiences. And like, frankly, I don't really care about people's audience size. I don't care.
you know, if it's big or small or whatever, I just care about whether they like it and whether people are engaged with it. And there's a real connection there because that's what I think podcast guesting is so great for is building these deep relationships quickly.
Teri Holland (05:12.941)
Yeah. And then you get like, like what you were saying, that someone says, Hey, just send me your cart link. Like, I don't even need a conversation with you because they feel like they already have that experience with you. They feel like they've already had a conversation. They don't need to talk with you to know that they're ready to work with you. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (05:18.348)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (05:29.771)
Yeah, exactly. And I'm sure you get that as well with your audience, cause you know, they hear your voice all the time and that's such a powerful way to build rapport with people.
Teri Holland (05:38.185)
Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, and I always hear people say they're like, I feel like I already know you so well. And I'm just meeting them for the first time, which is incredible. Yeah. Now a lot of the listeners, they are coaches or their service providers. And they might feel like they don't have anything unique to say, or they they don't know how to separate themselves apart from the next coach who's going to be pitching or the other service providers. So what would you say to that? How do you begin to stand out in your pitches?
Rachel Allen (05:43.979)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (05:57.101)
and
Rachel Allen (06:08.429)
So I always tell people to come to each pitch and each interview with three things and one is something that's like interesting and relevant about what you do. So sure you're a coach, but maybe you're the coach who does whatever specialty. Maybe you only work with say private practice doctors or maybe you do whatever. It's whatever your niche is or you can think about something that's really interesting that you've done. So I'm the coach who worked with Kobe on his mindset or something. That's where you want to pull out the cool stuff.
So something cool and relevant about you, an interesting story. So this could be how you got into it. It could be like the weirdest coaching call you've ever had or the most outsized effect your coaching has ever had, something you could have never expected. And then the final thing is something that you truly believe in. And this is the one that sets people apart the most because like everybody can say, oh, I'm a coach. You know, I believe in empowering you or whatever, but it's like, no, like what do you...
deep down believe in. And so for me, I truly believe that words make worlds and nobody else is going to say that like I say it. They don't believe it like I believe it. And that's the most unique thing I could possibly wring out as a marketing strategist.
Teri Holland (07:13.323)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. it's, you know, as I'm hearing you talk, I'm thinking about all the pitches that I get in my inbox every day. And so many of them are not like what you're describing. So many of them are coaches who will say like, I'm a coach and I empower people and I can help your audience overcome their limiting beliefs. And I read them and I think, so what? Like I, first of all, that's what I do. If you researched me, you would know that.
Rachel Allen (07:20.621)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (07:37.164)
Yes.
Teri Holland (07:40.257)
That's what I already do. So what are you bringing that I don't do? And so what? Like, why would my audience care about that? I have a few hundred of you in my inbox saying the same thing. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (07:43.691)
Right.
Rachel Allen (07:52.542)
Mm-hmm. And I think, so that, that makes me think about a tip that I get people with marketing, which is to think about your 4 a.m. language. And I can't remember if I said this the last time I was on, but, yeah, yeah. So very short version, you know, everyone is like, I want you to be your most empowered self, but no one has woken up at four in the morning being like, if only I could be my most empowered self. So you want to think about how they say it, you know.
Teri Holland (08:02.913)
Yeah, I think so.
Teri Holland (08:13.453)
Yes! Yes!
Yeah, yeah, like they're waking up going, how am I paying that bill next week? Yeah.
Rachel Allen (08:22.187)
Yeah, exactly. When are we going to stop feeling like such a failure or whatever it is their thing is, if you can say that really specific thing, that's the way that you can stand out.
Teri Holland (08:27.148)
Yeah.
Absolutely. So what are some non-negotiables that every podcast pitch should have and that maybe people are getting wrong?
Rachel Allen (08:46.507)
Hmm. Well, it has to be personal. I think that's the easiest thing that people skip over. And so they're like, well, it's just a numbers game. I'll just send out a ton of pitches and it doesn't matter if they're personalized because somebody will take me up on it. Sure. Maybe, but like you probably don't want them. Like if they're just taking anybody, you don't want to be on their podcast. So it has to be a little bit personalized. This doesn't mean you have to listen to their entire back catalog. You don't have to know their kids' names or their dog or whatever.
You just have to be like, Hey, I actually genuinely see you as a person. like, I want to talk to you, not everyone else. So start with that. It can be very light. It doesn't have to take a whole lot of time. I think the second thing is it needs to be short. People approach pitches like it's like, here's my entire resume. See if you like me enough. And that's a horrible position to put a partner's host in. Cause like, you don't want to read this like giant long email.
Teri Holland (09:36.448)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (09:40.863)
So it's a gift to do a short one and be like, Hey, I want to be on your podcast. Here is the like bare minimum of information you need to say yes or no. Is this worth us exploring further?
Teri Holland (09:51.841)
Yeah, I love that. And, you know, I want to touch more on the personalization part of it because I get a lot of pitches that like when you first glance over it, it might seem personalized. But when I read it as the host, I know that they didn't actually listen to the episode that they're quoting from, because I know that those words are in my show notes and they've just pulled.
Rachel Allen (10:10.273)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (10:16.909)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (10:18.283)
couple key points from my show notes and said, Hey, I listened to your recent episode about blah, blah, blah. And I love how you touch on X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, you read my show notes. So didn't listen to the show. You read the show notes, which I mean, at least they did that much. At least you did that. But like either, you know, actually listen and pull out something personal. Like I would say something personal, like a personal insight you had, not just personalizing it to my show, but something
Rachel Allen (10:27.735)
Like, come on. Right. Right.
Rachel Allen (10:39.213)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (10:46.463)
an insight you actually had from it. or like, I would rather they don't bother even including it. If they're gonna, if they're gonna pretend that they listened, then don't just don't bother. Just give me your pitch. And don't pretend. Yeah. Very performative.
Rachel Allen (10:58.891)
right because it's super performative. actually like, it kind of makes me think of, I think this is on your about page. You talk about how a mentor of yours had you write a dating profile for your ideal client. And so it's a little bit like, like a dating message. If someone messaged you and were like, I see that you love dogs. Okay, great. You can read, which is so much different than like your Cocker Spaniel is crazy cute. Can we talk about the best dog parks? You know,
Teri Holland (11:10.316)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (11:18.988)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (11:23.743)
Yes. Yes. Which funny enough, I had a dog trainer on my show and he pitched that way. Like he was like, Hey Terry, I love your dogs. They're super cute. Seems like you could use a little help with Dutch once in a while. Have you ever thought about having a dog trainer on your show? Cause dog training and leading people are very similar. And I was like, well, now you're speaking my language.
Rachel Allen (11:29.429)
No way.
Rachel Allen (11:36.481)
Nice.
Rachel Allen (11:47.105)
That's an amazing pitch. love that. Yeah, totally.
Teri Holland (11:52.189)
And you're gonna solve my problem with my dog. Perfect.
Rachel Allen (11:55.692)
Right. I love that. That's great on like four different levels. Cause as you say, solves your problem is actually a fit and shows that he's thought about it enough to be like, Hey, did you think about how these two things that most people don't think about connect? Like that's so interesting. I love that.
Teri Holland (12:01.814)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (12:07.189)
Mm-hmm, yeah. Exactly, exactly. It was very cool. And he pitched me, it was a couple years ago, but I still remember his pitch because it stood out. Yeah. What are like three things that we should not do when pitching to be on a show?
Rachel Allen (12:16.332)
Yes.
Rachel Allen (12:23.117)
Yeah. So, I mean, so I think the first one again is you don't want to automate it. Don't copy and paste and like, for the love of God, get their name right. That is such a like, aw thing. know. Yep. I get so many and it's like, it's such a tiny thing. It's not a big deal, but I get so many pitches that spell my name wrong. And I'm like, my name is plastered all over the whole entire internet. It's just not that hard. So like it shows that they didn't take two seconds to really think about it. And they're just sort of on autopilot.
Teri Holland (12:33.581)
Yes, thank you.
Teri Holland (12:46.657)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (12:53.003)
So I think avoid that, know, get the little details right. Don't try any like manipulation or like pushiness. I've seen a couple of people do that with their pitches where they're like, I'm just starting out and it would really help me out if you would please let me be on your show and like making this very sticky exchange. And like that doesn't make anybody feel good, you know? So like, yeah, just.
Teri Holland (13:12.961)
Yeah. No, that's gross.
Rachel Allen (13:17.569)
be straight and be like, hey, like make a clean ask, I guess is the way I'd say it. Like, hey, this is what I would like balls in your court. and I'm trying to think as far as a third one. yeah. Don't be a pushy follow-up person. There's a really good way to do follow-up. There's a really bad way. And a lot of it's like, I've had people, drives me insane. Like they'll message me on Facebook, which I don't use anyway. And then they'll be like,
Teri Holland (13:25.43)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (13:32.973)
Thank you.
Rachel Allen (13:42.825)
sending me sigh emojis when I don't immediately respond to their message about being on, you know, my blog or whatever, which I don't even accept. I'm like, what are you like this? It's so bleh. You don't want to be like a LinkedIn spam bot about it.
Teri Holland (13:47.223)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (13:54.38)
Yeah.
Yeah, I get those. They'll be like, I guess you're not interested in me. We'll be like the next, I haven't heard from you yet. And I'm like, and you're not going to like the more you me messages like that, the less likely I am to respond because now it feels manipulative. Yeah. Yes.
Rachel Allen (14:03.403)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (14:11.757)
I got one on LinkedIn that said, I haven't felt this rejected since prom night. And I was like, my man, come on. Exactly.
Teri Holland (14:21.377)
really, really, then you've lived a very sheltered life. Then good for you, you haven't actually experienced real rejection then, good for you.
Rachel Allen (14:31.359)
Right, right. I'm so glad I could provide that for you.
Teri Holland (14:34.411)
Yeah, exactly. Here's your moment of growth. Enjoy it.
Rachel Allen (14:37.836)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (14:41.525)
Yeah, so good. And like with the name thing, like when you're mentioning like get the names right and stuff. Also if they're, not that they should do this, but if you are using like AI to create your email, make sure you go in and delete the parts you're supposed to delete and fill in the parts you're supposed to fill in. I had a pitch come to me that was like, hi, insert host name here. I really enjoy listening to your podcast. Put the name of the show here.
Rachel Allen (14:46.721)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (14:58.668)
gosh, yeah.
Rachel Allen (15:05.823)
no.
Teri Holland (15:11.529)
and a few points that you like about like all the way through the email.
Rachel Allen (15:16.557)
That's awful.
Teri Holland (15:17.919)
And I was normally I wouldn't respond to one like that, but I did write him back and I was like, Hey, by the way, you're supposed to delete a lot of these parts and like fill in the blanks just before you send out the next one. Cause I was like, I'll do, I'll do the guy a favor at least let him know.
Rachel Allen (15:26.647)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (15:32.063)
Yeah. He's not realizing. Did you get a response or did he just like leave it? Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah.
Teri Holland (15:35.327)
No, he disappeared, disappeared. no, actually, no, he sent a follow-up and it was just as bad. It was just the same. It was like, I don't even think he read my email back because the follow-up was still all the like, include like three key points from their last episode or whatever. Like it was, it was so bad. It's one of the worst ones I've ever, ever received. Yeah. Yeah. So in terms of like personalizing the pitch,
Rachel Allen (15:40.695)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (15:44.063)
my
Rachel Allen (15:47.308)
you
Rachel Allen (15:59.16)
Yeah, that's terrible.
Teri Holland (16:05.421)
How personal should it be? Is there a line between showing that you've done your research and maybe coming across as trying too hard?
Rachel Allen (16:14.623)
Yeah, for sure. So the level that you want to be at is about what you would say to somebody if you met them like at a networking event and maybe you'd check them out on LinkedIn beforehand. So it's like, you work in wherever I saw that you like this thing. Cool. You know, it's that like light initial friendship level. It gets creepy if you go much further than that, unless you're just like,
Teri Holland (16:28.161)
in
Teri Holland (16:32.406)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (16:37.847)
for whatever reason, very determined to show this person that you are their biggest super fan ever and you think they're gonna respond to that, but like chances are they won't, it's gonna feel weird. You don't wanna get into like, listen to every single thing you've ever done and your picture on your terms and conditions page is incredible. Like then it gets very stalkery and odd, you know?
Teri Holland (16:46.965)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (16:52.781)
Yeah, yeah, that would be, that would be. So we're keeping it like LinkedIn level. Like you've read their bio, you've done like the surface stuff.
Rachel Allen (17:02.657)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (17:06.185)
Exactly. Like you'd rather buy you, you could pick them out of a lineup. You know, it's like when they email you back, it's like, I know that that's Terry and not, don't know, whoever else I've emailed, you know? So like, know them enough. and you're doing them the favor of not like imposing this, presumed relationship on them. Because when you include all that extra stuff, it's like, we're best friends. Of course you should care about me. And you're like, Ooh, I don't know you and you don't have good boundaries.
Teri Holland (17:10.869)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (17:15.949)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (17:19.35)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (17:26.413)
you
Teri Holland (17:35.563)
Yes. such a good point. So when you're picking podcasts to pitch to, how do you pick shows that are worth pitching to? What's your strategy there and how you decide who you're gonna pitch to?
Rachel Allen (17:39.426)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (17:54.391)
So the first thing I think about is honestly just vibes. Like if I look at somebody and I'm like, that looks kind of cool. Then I'll look into them a little bit more. Then I start doing research into audience size. Again, I don't really care, but if they've only done like one episode, they're probably not really ready for guests yet. So only if they've done like 5,000 episodes, I know that I'm really going to need to stand out because they've had a lot of people on. I also look at
Teri Holland (18:11.053)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (18:18.241)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (18:21.365)
Like if there's a genuine thing I can add to their conversation. So there's several podcasts who have approached me where they're like, we talk about cigars. And I'm like, I don't smoke. can't help you. Like I can talk about selling cigars if that's how you would like me. Yeah. Right. It's some sort of like they smoke a cigar live on YouTube and talk about them. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. That doesn't sound fun to me. Yeah. So.
Teri Holland (18:33.345)
was just thinking that. I'm like, do you want to sell the cigars? Because then, maybe.
Teri Holland (18:44.779)
No. No. No.
Rachel Allen (18:48.693)
Yeah, I look for like, do I, would I actually have something to say to this person if we met randomly, you know, if we weren't sort of in this artificial atmosphere. and then I look for, like little things. some, you know, some people charge to be on their podcasts and I don't do pay to play. So it's like, you know, that's just not a fit for me. I don't have a, like, I don't judge it or anything, but it's just not what I do. similarly, if they do the like, you can be on my podcast, but in 12 years and I'm like, okay, well that's fine. You know, I'll circle back if it's really a thing. So I think I look for markers of,
Teri Holland (18:53.346)
Hmm.
Teri Holland (19:13.121)
Hmm.
Rachel Allen (19:18.839)
How do I describe this? Feeling your own importance, perhaps a little more than a podcast warrants.
Teri Holland (19:25.117)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, good call. Are there any other red flags that you've noticed that might, maybe when you're sort of in that research phase and then you see something that would immediately turn you off from pitching?
Rachel Allen (19:40.781)
if I listen to their audio and it's super bad, or if they've got like really bad video, cause I'm like, well, if you can, as the host can't be bothered to have good audio, like why would I even show up to do this? I have a, this is a weird one, which might be me specific, but if they use a soundboard and they're not good at it, I won't pitch them. Yeah.
Teri Holland (19:52.599)
Two point.
Teri Holland (20:00.237)
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (20:02.742)
Cause I've been on a couple where like this dude, he had some soundboard and he would do like a cheer and applause every time I said something, but it played over my audio. And then he would ask the question. So the entire podcast, me being like, yeah, cause I'm trying to hear it over the audio. Yeah. It was a super odd experience.
Teri Holland (20:17.578)
weird.
Yeah, that sounds like it. It reminds me of one that I was on where I did not do enough research. It was an eye-opening experience for me. It was a good learning experience of like research more before going on. But I was invited onto this show and the host turned off his video for the whole interview and had just my website on the screen. And I was like, I'm just staring at my own website. This is so awkward and impersonal.
Rachel Allen (20:23.338)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (20:50.474)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (20:51.595)
It was really strange.
Rachel Allen (20:53.932)
That's the only situation I could see that is like if you went on a thing that was specifically about website audits, you know, sometimes they'll do like a live session and I'm like, okay, that makes sense. But don't surprise me. Yeah. Like don't surprise me with a weird format.
Teri Holland (21:00.929)
Hmm. Yeah, totally. And it was not, it was, it was not that, yeah. Yeah. It really, threw me off because I was like, I don't, I'm not talking to a person. I'm talking to my own picture on a screen on my homepage. That's weird. So that was a lesson. That was a good lesson to learn. Yeah. Yeah. I know you talk about, pitching being profitable. So
Rachel Allen (21:13.484)
Yeah.
Yeah. Very off-putting.
Rachel Allen (21:28.715)
Yes.
Teri Holland (21:30.125)
What are some metrics? I know we touched on it earlier about how you're sort of tracking things and how you're looking at it now, but what are some ways that the listeners should set themselves up to really track their ROI and to know if what they're doing is working for their business or not?
Rachel Allen (21:44.883)
Hmm. That's such a good question. So I think the first thing is try to track where people come from and you might not be able to do this super directly, unless you just ask them. So, sometimes people will tell you, they'll say like, I heard you on whatever, whatever. And like, just had to talk to you. So obviously mark that down. But if you have a podcast interview come out and then you suddenly have like a big influx of social media followers, or you have a big influx of people in your inbox, just ask them, Hey, did you hear me on blah, blah? Cause like that just came out.
Teri Holland (22:14.337)
Nice.
Rachel Allen (22:14.782)
And if not, then at least you know where they're from. If so, you can send the host like a nice little like thank you thing, you know? So look to that. and then look for shifts in the demographics in your social media as well. That's a big thing that I've seen where it's like, I'm clearly reaching a different audience than I was before. My engagement levels are different than before. I'm trying to think, and this, guess this is a qualitative one, so it's not directly an ROI, but I think, I do a review monthly and then quarterly and then yearly of like,
Teri Holland (22:20.503)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (22:32.727)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (22:43.884)
Who did I meet that I really liked? And it's been podcast host for the past like two years. And so that's what I look for. It's like, who did I meet in business that I really enjoyed that felt like a really great relationship. And it's always that for me.
Teri Holland (22:49.441)
Thanks.
Teri Holland (22:56.269)
that's great, great ways to measure and just start tracking things. And it's, you know, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking from my perspective too, as the host of, you yeah, I had this guest on who was in Poland and suddenly I had a huge influx of downloads, like massive in Poland. And I was like, he definitely shared it. Like he clearly did what he was supposed to do because I've never had that many downloads come from there.
Rachel Allen (22:57.548)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (23:14.943)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (23:18.39)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (23:23.505)
where suddenly I was ranking on the charts, the iTunes charts there, and I was like, I have not been on their charts before. Other countries sure, but not there. And so I knew instantly, I'm like, he's doing a good job of sharing this episode. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (23:26.572)
That's amazing.
Rachel Allen (23:31.628)
Thank
Rachel Allen (23:35.969)
Yeah, I think that's one of the things too, just from a guest perspective, that it's so easy, but so many people don't do. I think they overcomplicate it. It's like, just share the interview. I know that's such a, like every host I always ask in interviews, like, how can I be a really good guest? And I'm like, my God, please just share it. And I'm like, of course I'm going to be sharing it forever. And it's not hard. And it's like such a gift to the person who's given you their time and brought you on their show.
Teri Holland (23:45.771)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri Holland (23:53.057)
Yes. Yeah. Exactly.
Teri Holland (24:00.909)
Mm-hmm. Are there ever times where you don't share the interview? Where you're like, listen to it, and you're like, ehh, don't think so.
Rachel Allen (24:08.364)
Yeah. There's one or two that I've done where, um, either the host audio was super bad or, I've had very, very rarely I'll have someone bring me on and it looks like they're kind of picking a fight, you know? And I guess, yeah, like I've had a couple of times where I've told hosts, like, I understand what you're trying to do. Please ask me a different question because I don't. Yeah. Like I haven't come on to be on the, you know, the Jerry Springer show.
Teri Holland (24:23.147)
Ooh.
Teri Holland (24:31.799)
But good for you.
Rachel Allen (24:36.256)
But if they persist in something like that, I'm like, well, this isn't going to provide value for anyone. I'm not here to perpetuate rage bait. So like, I'm not going to share that.
Teri Holland (24:44.247)
Good, good for you. Yeah, I've had guests come on. Well, I've had one, only one time where I had a guest come on and before the interview, he's like, Terry, argue with me. I love a good argument. And I was like, this is the wrong show then, dude. I don't argue with my guests. Like there's no, that's not the show. yeah, and he had pitched to be on. We had gone through like all the steps. I thought he had listened to the show and I just thought I...
Rachel Allen (24:55.552)
Why? Yeah.
Rachel Allen (25:01.344)
Yeah, if we want to fight, can go do that somewhere else.
Teri Holland (25:12.653)
That's not my style. I'm not going to argue with you. It was very strange. And I didn't argue with him. So was like, it's just not going to happen here. It was still a great interview. It turned out really well. But it was odd to me that he was like, fight with me, Terry. And I'm like, no.
Rachel Allen (25:21.694)
Yeah, and how?
good.
Rachel Allen (25:30.696)
Yeah, there's other places you can go. That's a morning radio thing. Like, go do that somewhere else.
Teri Holland (25:35.433)
Yeah, do that somewhere else. Exactly. That's not here. And I also thought from my audience's perspective, they suddenly heard that after listening to me for a long time. And they're like, what's Terry doing today? What is this? Yeah.
Rachel Allen (25:47.957)
Yeah, and like, think the consistency, like the consistency is such an important part of the rapport. And it would just, it would be the exact same as like if you had a friend who is normally very calm and very chill and then some, come in like really mad one day. That's very off-putting.
Teri Holland (25:54.157)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (26:00.449)
Yeah.
Yes, yeah, I agree. I agree. What's your, or do you have a system for tracking who you've pitched to and maybe your followups? Like how do you, how do you organize all of that?
Rachel Allen (26:20.83)
yeah, so I can have a Notion template that I've made to make it really easy. I'm a huge Notion nerd. You could do the exact same thing in a Google doc though. and I share the template when I teach this, but the things like everybody wants to skip it. Cause like pitching, I think people feel that pitching is very hard. even when it doesn't have to be, but it's like, okay, I pitched and then I don't want to think about it ever again. Please don't make me like think about these people, but you have to, because you need to have their name.
Teri Holland (26:23.789)
Teri Holland (26:30.561)
Nice.
Rachel Allen (26:46.572)
You need to know when you initially pitched them and you need to set a reminder in your inbox to follow up with them in a week if they haven't responded to you. So that's the things that I track. And then I also track like, um, if the interview has actually been scheduled versus aired versus recorded, you know, whatever stage it's in. So that way I can make sure that I'm promoting it on social media. Um, or if like I dropped the ball and forgot to schedule it or they rescheduled it and I didn't realize what was going on. So it just helps me kind of keep track of like who I'm talking to when, so that I can make sure I'm actually showing up in the right place.
Teri Holland (26:53.997)
Nice.
Teri Holland (27:02.282)
Wow.
Teri Holland (27:16.631)
Yeah, that's so good. So good. And I love that you're using Notion because that's one that I've been meaning to get more into because it seems so cool, but it also seems so overwhelming at the same time. There's so many things you can do with it. So I love using it.
Rachel Allen (27:18.72)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (27:25.995)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (27:31.968)
Mm-hmm. The best way I would describe it, it's like, it's very existential. It's a little bit of an existential crisis when you first start, because you can't do anything in it. I had about a two year learning curve with it, but once I got it, I was like, now my entire brain lives here. Yeah. Yeah. I really liked it.
Teri Holland (27:36.245)
Yes.
Teri Holland (27:42.893)
Bye.
Teri Holland (27:47.115)
Wow, that's so cool. And that tells me I need to give it more time. Cause I think I did like a deep dive one evening and I was like, this is too much, but I mean, just give it some more time. Yeah. So what are, know, going back to the follow-up, cause you mentioned you schedule that reminder for one week. If you haven't heard from them, how often should we be following up and how many times should we follow up?
Rachel Allen (27:53.804)
Yeah
Rachel Allen (28:03.233)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (28:13.27)
So if I've pitched them, I follow up twice and I do that at one week and then at three weeks. cause you know, people miss email stuff happens and the key to doing this without annoying everyone is one week is just like, Hey, just checking in, you know, something like that. Three weeks is checking in one last time. So that way they're more likely to actually respond to you and give you a yes or no versus thinking like, my gosh, this person is going to be emailing me until I die. So if you phrase it like that,
Teri Holland (28:18.849)
Nice.
Teri Holland (28:28.418)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (28:40.022)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (28:41.782)
Then you're like, look, I'm not going to bother you, but I just want to know one way or the other. And then after the podcast, I sent an email immediately to the host saying like, thank you so much. I really appreciated this about our interview. you know, here's the stuff I was going to send you, blah, blah, blah. And then I, schedule a three month followup and a six month followup to just check in and be like, how is life for you? Is there anything I can help you out with? You know, very light touch.
Teri Holland (29:06.067)
awesome. That sounds so good because I get the ones that are like they pitch and the next day it's hey did you read my email yesterday and then it's just constant and and I'll say there have been some where the first email I've been intrigued by it I've maybe marked it to come back to it and then when they start following up relentlessly I just remove it because I'm like you are you're too much for me and it's turned me off. Where I like it
Rachel Allen (29:18.23)
exhausting.
Rachel Allen (29:29.194)
Yeah. Yeah, I know.
Teri Holland (29:34.039)
The way you're doing it sounds like a really nice cadence.
Rachel Allen (29:37.768)
Yeah, because I try to think about like what wouldn't be annoying to me, you know? And I'm not in my inbox every single day. So I want to give other people the benefit of that as well, especially because they don't podcast, you know, all the time, full time, most people.
Teri Holland (29:41.397)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Teri Holland (29:50.145)
Yeah, I'm shocked that you're not in your inbox every day. Tell me how. How do you do that? Tell me. Tell me more.
Rachel Allen (29:53.613)
I every other day, three times a week. Well, I think the biggest part of it was like a mindset shift of like, no one is going to bleed out if I don't, because I have a journalism background and so I'm like very, you I was so on it for so long. But I would find myself checking it just like all the time when I didn't even really need to. So over the past couple of years, I've gotten to the place where I, I'll like...
Teri Holland (30:08.876)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (30:14.071)
Yes.
Rachel Allen (30:18.334)
Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you know, something like that about three days a week I'll check in. If something urgent's happening, then obviously I'll be more on it. But nothing's going to happen. Like nothing will be bad in my business that won't be okay tomorrow.
Teri Holland (30:23.085)
Wow.
Teri Holland (30:32.563)
amazing, because I'm the person who checks it all day.
Rachel Allen (30:34.155)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (30:38.122)
Yeah, I ended up just stressing myself out too much with it. mm-hmm. Yeah. I even took email off my phone. Like I cannot access it. I don't even have the app and my password's really complicated. So I could not get to it if I wanted to.
Teri Holland (30:40.727)
Yes. I think you've inspired me. I'm going to try to scale it back.
Teri Holland (30:49.952)
Huh?
Teri Holland (30:55.917)
That's amazing. That's absolutely amazing. That like, it gave me a little heart palpitation to think about removing it off my phone. I was like, but what would I do? How would I? Which tells me I probably, oh yeah, that makes sense. But this tells me this is what I need to do. That the fact that there's such a like, this is the right thing. This is exactly what needs to happen. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (30:57.354)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (31:01.1)
The only time I put it back is when I'm traveling.
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (31:20.124)
I mean, after the initial withdrawal period, really like it. It's helped my nervous system gear down quite a bit.
Teri Holland (31:25.971)
I bet, I'm definitely, definitely gonna implement this. Now, what would you say to the person who's listening who just hates pitching and they feel such a fear or such resistance against it or like imposter syndrome coming up? what would you say to those people who really want to do this? They want to get on these podcasts, but they're just so much resistance to doing it at all.
Rachel Allen (31:37.738)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (31:48.149)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (31:53.725)
Mmm. I talk to people like this all the time. So there's a couple things first. The first thing I tell them is like with all the love my little heart can muster, any idiot can get on a podcast. Like there are so many podcasts and there are so many idiots on them. So like you lovely human are not an idiot and it will do all of us so much good to have your voice out there and not be listening to all the people who are only there to show their product who are only there.
Teri Holland (31:56.396)
I bet.
Rachel Allen (32:21.952)
to just pitch, pitch, pitch, you know, like their own stuff. Once they're on the podcast, we are so desperate for human conversation. So please give us that gift. And a reframe that can help with the like, of it all is, what I recommend you do is don't even, don't even try to get a yes. Don't even think about it. It doesn't even matter. What matters is did you send the pitch or not? And so when you take the, like the dopamine payoff,
Teri Holland (32:25.581)
Nah.
Teri Holland (32:31.085)
Nice.
Teri Holland (32:47.383)
Nice.
Rachel Allen (32:50.006)
to did I do my stuff versus did I get the yes, then the stakes are way lower. Because I can send 10 emails, like I do that all day long anyway. But like getting 10 possible nos, that's heavy. So I want to switch that and I want to get away from that and make it as easy as possible for myself.
Teri Holland (33:01.793)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (33:07.059)
Nice. I love that. And how do you shift someone who's maybe they're so they're ready, they're going to pitch, they've gotten through that resistance part of it, but they don't want to seem salesy. How do they pitch themselves in a way that's authentic and not salesy?
Rachel Allen (33:18.87)
Yeah.
Mm-mm.
Rachel Allen (33:25.918)
this is going to sound like very trite, but like, don't be salesy. write it like, like you would actually speak to someone. So I think we get this idea that we have to go into like sales voice of like, hello, Terry, my name is Rachel and I would like to be on your podcast. It's weird. I don't want to talk to anybody like that, you know? And I don't talk to anybody like that in real life. So instead write it not like, not quite as though you were texting a friend. That's probably a little bit too casual, but like you were talking to a workplace acquaintance. Hey, I saw that.
Teri Holland (33:36.779)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (33:42.338)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (33:54.475)
Nice.
Rachel Allen (33:55.39)
might you be interested? That's about the level of connection that you want to go for. Because like, wants to be sold too, so consider this your freedom. You do not have to sell.
Teri Holland (34:04.437)
I love it. I love that. Now, since you've been on, actually, how many podcasts have you been on now? Like, I know it's 50 plus a year, but how many do you know? How many overall you've done?
Rachel Allen (34:05.663)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Allen (34:13.674)
moment.
Last I tracked, and so this is not counting like the dark ages from probably, I think seven years ago was my cutoff. last I tracked, was just over 300. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of fun.
Teri Holland (34:23.809)
Wow. Amazing. That's incredible. like having been on so many podcasts, do you still get nervous before an interview? if so, how do you prepare yourself for the interview?
Rachel Allen (34:39.968)
Hmm. I don't know. I don't think I get nervous. I think that I do get focused and I don't know, maybe it's me putting like a different name on the same energy because I do get a little bit of a, like a zing, you know, every time before I go on, but I've spoken to hundreds of people, almost all there's been like four that have been truly terrible. And so that's a really good ratio of like really genuinely lovely people and
Teri Holland (34:47.158)
Okay.
Teri Holland (34:53.163)
Ooh, yeah.
Teri Holland (35:07.17)
Nice.
Rachel Allen (35:08.532)
I try to think of it not like, I need to like go on and perform. So I have to be smart or whatever. Like I go on and I trust the host to have a conversation with me. And I know that whatever needs to come out is going to come
Teri Holland (35:20.877)
I think that's great. Like a really great frame of mind to approach it with. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever done anything sort of outside the box in a pitch or tried something maybe unusual that you hadn't done before? And if so, how did that work?
Rachel Allen (35:40.958)
so I've done that a couple times. I've had, I have like a basic sort of structure that I follow, but if I see somebody who has a really out there description, then I'll try to match the energy in their description. So like one dude had like bullet points. So my pitch to him was bullet points. think his title was like eccentric entrepreneurs doing something. And was another E word and I can't remember what it was, but it was like eccentric. I need anti-counterpains and think about world war run a lot.
Teri Holland (35:47.17)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (35:53.761)
Cool.
Rachel Allen (36:08.669)
entrepreneur been doing this 18 years, you know? And so I just listed those things to be like, yeah, man, I got you and I'm matching your energy. Yeah. So that was a fun one. And then I had a couple where I'm so excited that I'm like, I'll say something along the lines of like, I can give you the whole spiel if you really want, but where I'm really at is like, pick me, pick me, because I think you're really cool. And I want to talk about this.
Teri Holland (36:15.661)
That's awesome. Yeah.
Teri Holland (36:30.883)
that's very cool. And how did that one turn out? Did you get the podcast? Awesome. That's great. Yeah, I think that's a fun way to do it.
Rachel Allen (36:32.266)
Yeah.
Yeah, it worked out. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (36:42.089)
Well, especially because like I genuinely, like my energy was genuinely there with it when I was doing it. You know, it wasn't like I wasn't trying to scam them into it. So I think people can actually feel the energy behind it when you come at it with that.
Teri Holland (36:46.509)
Hmm.
Teri Holland (36:52.523)
Yes. Yeah. And I think that would be so refreshing to see that. Like if I saw that in my inbox with all these other like long boring salesy pitches and then to come across something fresh like that would cut through all of that other noise. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (37:05.011)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's really what you're going for. And in a way that is as you as possible. I often encourage people to like literally copy and paste my pitches when they're first starting out, but they're going to find, yeah, I'm like, steal it, please go ahead. It works. But they'll find that they'll start changing words when they say it, like just naturally, or something will start shifting. And I'm like, follow that because that's your voice coming out. Like you're welcome to use me for training wheels, but then start following what you need to say.
Teri Holland (37:19.045)
wow.
Teri Holland (37:29.292)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (37:33.506)
Mm-hmm.
And along those lines of using your own words and your own voice, have you ever hired a company to pitch on your behalf?
Rachel Allen (37:45.651)
I haven't. I pitch for clients, but I've never had somebody pitch for me.
Teri Holland (37:49.109)
Yeah, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that. Like is it better if you can pitch for yourself, is it better to do that? Or do you think if it's like, if that's not your forte, should you consider hiring someone to do it on your behalf?
Rachel Allen (38:04.569)
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, like, especially if you just really don't want to, but I would encourage you to try at least, let's just say 10 on your own. So that way you can actually, like, you understand the mechanics behind it. You can kind of start to see what you might naturally do. And that way, if they start doing something, you could be like, Ooh, that's not me or that's a great fit. So you at least have like a measurement and you don't have somebody going out there and like pitching you in a way that doesn't sound like you.
Teri Holland (38:27.115)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (38:32.461)
Mm hmm. Or just doing a really bad job of it because I have seen I have I've seen some really good ones come through podcast guesting agencies and I've seen some atrocious ones like one of them was a pitch through an agency for an attorney who specializes in representing immigrants who have been in car accidents. And I was like that has
Rachel Allen (38:36.169)
Exactly.
Rachel Allen (38:41.672)
you
Rachel Allen (38:59.051)
Okay. Yeah. Unless they're coaching them through the obvious trauma of that.
Teri Holland (39:00.897)
What does this have to do with my show? Like this has...
Yeah, like I'm like, I don't this is not anything that I do. This has nothing to do with it. And so and I, I find that sometimes some of the companies like some of the companies that go out and pitch on their behalf, just it's like they just spray out a whole bunch of pitches. They don't care about the shows they're sending them to. It's just a numbers game to them. And I think that it can actually hurt the guest instead of helping them. And so yeah, but I've also seen really good ones where someone has hired someone and they do an excellent job at representing them.
Rachel Allen (39:22.569)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Allen (39:27.566)
yeah, absolutely.
Rachel Allen (39:35.596)
Mm-hmm. And I think maybe that's the difference. Like if you, if you actually get to sit down and speak to someone, if they're just like, send me your website and we'll do it. Absolutely not. Like you want to sit down and actually talk to them. You want to understand their strategy for pitching and make sure it aligns with your business strategy because like you'd also don't want to get a bunch of podcasts that aren't a good fit for you. know, like that particular person would not have been a good fit for your podcast and they wouldn't have gotten anything out of it. So it would have been a waste of both of your time.
Teri Holland (39:43.373)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (39:54.516)
Exactly.
Teri Holland (39:58.486)
Exactly, exactly. So yeah, absolutely. Now if someone listening wants to get their first guest spot, say the next 30 days, what's the one thing that they should do this week? Where do they start?
Rachel Allen (40:16.619)
Ooh, this week, okay. What I would recommend is, mm-hmm, okay, there's several ways we could go, but I think what I'm gonna do is think about why you actually want to get your guest spot, because that's gonna inform your strategy. All the other stuff, like the actual designing of the pitch, thinking about your messaging, that's gonna come next, but you need to understand what you're actually going for here, because that's gonna influence everything else.
Teri Holland (40:35.181)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (40:42.859)
Yeah, yeah, really good, good advice. And now you have a workshop coming up, the profitable podcast pitching workshop. Tell us about it. Tell us about who it's for, what they're gonna get when they sign up. Give us the whole rundown.
Rachel Allen (40:59.099)
I'm so excited about it. So, profitable podcast pitching, May 27th. It's from noon to 1.30 Eastern, and there will be a replay. And it's for people who want to be on podcasts and use podcast guesting as an actual pipeline in their business. So they're not just doing it like for funsies. They're not just doing it to get exposure. They want to find actual recurring revenue from it. So I'm teaching the entire system that I use to get all those views and listens and all that good stuff that I talked about earlier.
And so that includes everything from pitching strategy to how to create a personalized pitch. And we're going to actually do that in the workshop. So you'll walk out with your pitch. We'll be like live, write it together. We're going to talk about the key to making guest spots convert and the entire system that ties all of it together and makes it really easy for you to start doing it because I do all this stuff. get on all these podcasts and I pitch less than an hour a week.
Teri Holland (41:36.137)
Nice.
Teri Holland (41:52.895)
amazing. That sounds like such a value packed workshop.
Rachel Allen (41:59.404)
I'm really excited about it. Thank you.
Teri Holland (42:00.319)
Yeah, yeah. So all of you listening, if this is what, if you want to get onto podcasts, like definitely, definitely look at Rachel's workshop and we'll link that in the show notes as well. So, you you mentioned, you mentioned in that, in that description that you talked about how to convert and can you just give us like a little, a little taste of that or like maybe one little tip of how we can convert our guest interviews into more sales?
Rachel Allen (42:19.85)
Yes.
Rachel Allen (42:30.197)
So it's all about the follow up. It's having the follow up and building the relationship with that podcast host. It's being genuinely available to help them and leading with generosity in that. And then it's making a clear ask when the time comes. I think people really especially struggle with that last one because they don't want to appear transactional. But
Teri Holland (42:50.999)
Right.
Rachel Allen (42:51.987)
You can always make a clear ask and they can always say no and that's completely fine. And you can still have your relationship even be strengthened through that. Because if you're friends who can say no to each other, like you're real friends.
Teri Holland (43:02.977)
Yeah, absolutely. Now, some just for fun, rapid fire type questions. What's a podcast that you would drop everything to be a guest on?
Rachel Allen (43:17.927)
Ugh, Alan Alda has a podcast about science communication and I want to be on it so bad.
Teri Holland (43:22.221)
Noooo
that would be very cool. Yeah. Have you pitched to it? you?
Rachel Allen (43:27.178)
Yeah.
Rachel Allen (43:31.157)
haven't. I've been too scared so far. I probably should though. Yeah, I know. And like the communication angle is where I think I could get in. I don't really, I've written about science, but you know, I don't do it. So anyway, yeah, I've basically made a bunch of excuses, but now I'm really tempted.
Teri Holland (43:33.037)
do it, go for it. You never know.
Teri Holland (43:40.704)
Yes.
Teri Holland (43:47.703)
I think you should do it. We're gonna hold you to it. What's one word that you would use to describe your pitching style?
Rachel Allen (43:56.789)
personal.
Teri Holland (43:57.997)
I like it. Perfect. And if you could listen to only one podcast for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Rachel Allen (44:05.563)
Ooh, I listen to so many. The one I always come back to is Behind the Bastards with Robert Evans. I really like his approach. I'm a super big history nerd, so I'm really, really into it. Yeah.
Teri Holland (44:13.885)
Teri Holland (44:17.697)
Cool. I haven't listened to it, but I'm gonna have to check it out.
Rachel Allen (44:22.313)
I like it a lot. Pretty much everything from Cool Zone I've liked, so... Yeah.
Teri Holland (44:25.419)
Nice, nice, that's awesome. And the very last one, pineapple on pizza. Is it a yes or a no? Really?
Rachel Allen (44:34.443)
No, no, no, no. It's a texture thing. The taste I'm actually fine with, but the warm fruit is just really off-putting to me because I want it to be in like a cobbler, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri Holland (44:44.821)
Okay. But it's not. Gotcha. Okay, we'll accept that. That's acceptable. Yeah. So what would you like the audience to do next when it comes to looking at your workshop? Yeah, what do want them to do next?
Rachel Allen (45:00.747)
Yeah. Uh, well definitely check out the workshop page and this is a little like hint, hint, nudge, nudge. There's an FAQ that mentions a cat that has a coupon code in it. So definitely check that out. Um, I know it's a lot of fun and you get to see a picture of my cat looking absolutely insane. So it's like a benefit for everyone. Yeah, but check that out and whether or not, you know, you do this with me, I would really encourage you to just start pitching podcasts because it's such a great way to get your voice out there. And that really and truly matters.
Teri Holland (45:09.069)
Ooh, I love that.
Teri Holland (45:17.687)
Totally. Very clever, yeah.
Teri Holland (45:30.995)
Absolutely. And any last final thoughts for the audience?
Rachel Allen (45:35.657)
Hmm. I think I just want to reiterate for anyone who, like is sort of interested, but feels like they might be too shy or like, but who would listen to me on a podcast? Please do this. Like we really need to hear your voice. really does matter. And I guarantee you there's a podcast out there for you.
Teri Holland (45:46.71)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (45:54.029)
I love it. Thank you so much for coming on today.
Rachel Allen (45:57.289)
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Teri Holland (46:00.333)
Perfect. And before we finish, I'm just going to take a little screenshot of us, just for the promo stuff. I've got to move a couple things. Give me one sec. Okay. Just a smile. How are you like to show up?
Rachel Allen (46:02.741)
So good.
Rachel Allen (46:07.275)
yeah.
Teri Holland (46:22.311)
I I got it. Let me do just one more just off my keyboard too, because I don't always trust Riverside to do it right.
Rachel Allen (46:27.837)
Yeah, Understandable.
Teri Holland (46:32.074)
Okay, nice smile.
Perfect. Good.
Rachel Allen (46:37.068)
Nice. that was.
