Teri Holland (00:03.737)
Yehawel, welcome back.
Yahel Demeter (00:07.104)
Thank you, Thierry. Thank you for inviting me again.
Teri Holland (00:09.883)
I think this is number five.
Yahel Demeter (00:12.643)
I believe you. I didn't come, but I believe you.
Teri Holland (00:13.983)
Believe me? I'm pretty sure it's number five, so I'm going to create a playlist for just your episodes. The most recurring guest on Success in Mind.
Yahel Demeter (00:25.176)
the most boring playlist of success in my...
Teri Holland (00:27.259)
No! No! Do you think I'd create a boring show? Never. No.
Yahel Demeter (00:30.862)
I'm joking. No, no. But you could do better in choosing your podcast guests.
Teri Holland (00:38.807)
I agree. agree.
I'm joking, only the best guests make it on. So we're going to talk about business partnerships because we have one. And as of course you know, we do our regular Q &As on our Instagram account. And lately we've had a few questions about business partnerships and how people can get into a partnership like this one. So that's what sparked this conversation. So that's what we're gonna talk about.
Yahel Demeter (00:45.998)
What do you want to talk about today, Terry?
Yahel Demeter (01:09.08)
Yeah, I think I'll tell you what I think that good business partnerships attract questions like this, right? Because when you see something that works, when you see something that just that you can't put your finger on exactly what works, I think that it raises lots of questions, right? So let's try to answer most of them.
Teri Holland (01:16.879)
Hmm.
Teri Holland (01:25.37)
Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So let's start with what I think is the big overarching question, but why would you want to get into a partnership? Why do you want to?
Yahel Demeter (01:38.734)
Why did you want to go into a partnership?
Teri Holland (01:41.871)
I'm asking you!
Yahel Demeter (01:43.916)
I'm asking you also.
Teri Holland (01:47.427)
Okay, I'll tell you why I wanted to enter a partnership. One, I've worked alone for a long time and I was tired of working by myself. And even though I'm interacting with clients regularly, it's lonely. And I wanted someone to bounce ideas off with and to share some of the stresses and to share like the good stuff too. But also to have someone who compliments what I do, who doesn't do what I do, but compliments what I do. And...
And then you asked me if I wanted to work together and it was the perfect fit.
Yahel Demeter (02:21.966)
So I will add something to this because first of all, I knew that this is what you're going to answer. That's why I asked you to go first because the thing is Terry, that is, you know, at the bottom line, I'm a business strategist, right? This is what I do. And I can tell you this.
Teri Holland (02:27.641)
I figured, yeah.
Teri Holland (02:40.344)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (02:43.63)
People when they make decisions when they are lonely, usually make the wrong decisions. Okay. Because you mentioned it, how lonely you were, right? And I felt the same thing by the way. Don't get me wrong. I was lonely too. Every entrepreneur knows this feeling of the loneliness on the top of the pyramid. I knew it, you knew it.
Teri Holland (02:52.763)
Tell us more. Have so.
Teri Holland (02:59.149)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri Holland (03:07.739)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (03:13.454)
90 % of the business owners know it. Okay. This situation usually makes them make the wrong decision. They make decision out of, if they don't have enough bandwidth to think about what they are doing or what they should do. They make decisions that are not creative enough because they don't have anyone to bounce ideas with. So.
Teri Holland (03:33.497)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (03:41.296)
Hmm.
Yahel Demeter (03:43.36)
A good business partnership, a solid business partnership solves it. Now, it also does something else. It does the opposite, it's still negative. It's still positive. It also brings arguments into the relationship, right? Business arguments. Now, if you know how to manage those arguments, you actually grow from those arguments. You actually learn something about yourself, about your business, about...
Teri Holland (03:58.949)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (04:07.099)
True, true.
Yahel Demeter (04:11.906)
the environment that you walk in, right? So that's my point of view about why, about the why.
Teri Holland (04:13.593)
Yep. Yep.
Teri Holland (04:19.703)
Yeah, I want to add something to the the why and we'll come back to the arguments later because I think that's a whole topic we need to talk about is how do you handle disagreements in a partnership? So we're going to come back to that. But I want to add in that the other reason I wanted a partnership specifically with you, Yehal, was that when I was your client, because for those of you listening who might not know this, we met because I worked with Yehal. I was his client first and
while working with you, I would have appointments with clients, I'd meet with clients, and sometimes a question or something would come up that was more business strategy based. And I would think, I wish I had Yehal's brain here right now, because his brain could come up with a whole other level of response to this than what I see. And so it was also just having that, like just being able to compliment, again, like what we do.
Yahel Demeter (05:15.32)
So.
So yeah, sorry.
Teri Holland (05:19.715)
Yeah, but I would find myself thinking that I wish I had your hell's brain here right now so that he could answer this because he'd answer it at a whole different level.
Yahel Demeter (05:28.59)
So I will add something to that because after I think our first or second meeting, I came back home and I told my wife that I found myself in a woman.
Teri Holland (05:38.935)
Hahaha
Yahel Demeter (05:40.846)
So I felt that I can also bounce ideas with you. And that's why right after we finished our project together, I reached out and I tell you we need to do something together. Now this brings me...
Teri Holland (05:46.757)
That's amazing.
Not that part, I will.
Teri Holland (05:58.649)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (06:03.739)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (06:09.966)
to something else. Most people around us, Terry, most people who listen to these podcasts, because most of them are business owners, I guess, they already know who they would want to partner with, but they never ask the question.
Teri Holland (06:15.483)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (06:27.918)
Okay. So if you ask me how, how real business partnership starts is with that question, Terry, we need to do something together. Let's do great things together. It's not a question, but it is right. So most of you who are listening now, you already know who you want to partner with. You already know that person. It can be a friend, a family member. That's another issue, by the way, you need to be very careful there. A friend, a family member, past client, a colleague.
Teri Holland (06:28.347)
True. Yeah.
Teri Holland (06:37.05)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (06:44.763)
Good point.
Teri Holland (06:51.661)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Yahel Demeter (06:57.58)
even in one of your competitors, right? Competition is not always bad. So you probably know who you want to partner with. Just ask the question, start slow, make a good agreement and fly.
Teri Holland (07:11.757)
Yeah. Yeah. So, but how about this? Because they might know who they want to partner with, but how do they know that that's the right partner? Because I can think of scenarios where I think, you know, I have this really great friend and we have a lot of fun hanging out together. Like, let's do something, but that might not be the best partnership. And I think that sometimes, or many times, people partner with the wrong person because they are a friend and they think, this will be fun to do something together, but they're not the best partners.
Yahel Demeter (07:42.734)
True. I think that, you know what, I'll give you an answer from the startup industry. Because I have lots of experience there and it actually answers the question. When a startup needs to raise money, needs to raise money to operate, to grow, to test their ideas, to find a product market fit or...
Teri Holland (07:54.459)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (08:11.736)
go to market, right? They need money. And there are two kinds of money. There is regular money, just cash, and there is smart money. Smart money are investors who also have something to say, who also have connections, who also have more than just the role of investor in your startup. Okay, they have
Teri Holland (08:13.711)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (08:30.715)
Hmm.
Teri Holland (08:41.594)
Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (08:41.834)
record that you can actually help, which is much more than their money, right? Because money you can get in many places. Smart money is harder to get. That's exactly what I say about business partnerships. You need a smart partner. A smart partner is someone who is not only completes you when it comes to your skill set, but also makes you think.
Teri Holland (08:58.543)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (09:12.108)
Okay, who has the trachea to challenge your ideas. Right? Think about us, Terry. How many times that's why you laughed? How many times we disagree? How many times I tell you, let's agree to disagree. Okay. And how many times this sentence started a whole different level of conversation about what we disagree about, right? And how we learn from that. That's a good business partnership.
Teri Holland (09:17.371)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (09:31.043)
Absolutely.
Teri Holland (09:35.159)
Yep.
Teri Holland (09:41.785)
Yeah, so not necessarily your best friend. It could be, but not necessarily. And not necessarily someone who agrees with you on every single point.
Yahel Demeter (09:52.674)
Not only that, that's a red flag, Terry.
Teri Holland (09:54.363)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So if you're listening and you're thinking, well, my best friend and I, see eye eye on everything and we have the same opinions of everything and we'd have so much fun working together that, you know, maybe not. Maybe not the best thing.
Yahel Demeter (10:07.994)
But let's save, I suggest that for the listeners, let's save the red flags to the end, Because these are the warning signs, but let's talk about the positives, I think, first, okay? So what makes a good partnership theory? What makes it strong? So I think that the next factor that you need to take into account is role clarity.
Teri Holland (10:14.181)
Sure. Yeah.
Teri Holland (10:19.333)
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, it was a good one. Yeah. So go ahead.
Teri Holland (10:36.187)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (10:37.494)
Now this is something that is very easy to say and very easy to... yeah, sure. clarity. But what does it mean, Terry?
Teri Holland (10:48.097)
Exactly. Exactly. What? you're asking me. yeah.
Yahel Demeter (10:49.87)
So, yeah, in our case, for example, the world is very clear. I hate Instagram, for example. I don't understand it. I don't want to understand it. I really don't. And you know, I'm not active in social media. If I like something, it's by mistake, So, it makes me think.
Teri Holland (10:56.611)
Yeah, I was going to say.
Teri Holland (11:12.364)
Ha ha ha!
Teri Holland (11:18.051)
Or it's because I've said, yeah, I'll go like her last video.
Yahel Demeter (11:19.982)
Also true. So in our partnership, for example, you're in charge of this. I'm in charge of you tell me what I'm in charge of. But website, for example, Yeah. Strategic decisions we usually make together. But I think that I usually bring to the table complex ideas and your input is to make it simple. Right?
Teri Holland (11:32.027)
website, for example. Yeah.
Teri Holland (11:37.936)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (11:44.987)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (11:48.591)
Yeah, agreed, yeah.
Yahel Demeter (11:50.339)
So you need to find what are the rules, right? That's the first thing for me.
Teri Holland (11:53.807)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. What would you say is important in terms of values in a business partnership?
Yahel Demeter (12:08.478)
there must be alignment, Terry. There must be alignment in three different levels, I think. The first level is personal values. Okay, yes, for example, yesterday, we talk, we meet almost every day, but I think it was yesterday or the day before yesterday, I told you something and you told me, Yeheli, you're a good person. I don't remember what it was, but you told me, Yeheli, you're a good person. And we finished the conversation, I went to make dinner.
Teri Holland (12:10.181)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (12:29.285)
Yeah, I remember either.
Teri Holland (12:36.571)
Of course.
Yahel Demeter (12:38.474)
We finished the conversation and I told myself that it is so important in a business partnership that you actually think that the other partner, that the other side is a good person. Okay. That's super important. People don't usually pay attention to that. Okay. They know how to do business. They know how to make decisions. They know how to grow. They know how to take my ideas to different level. They good business partners. No. First of all, they need to be good people. Just like I told my girls, I don't care.
Teri Holland (12:49.167)
Hmm. Yeah.
Teri Holland (12:56.26)
Mm.
Teri Holland (13:01.743)
Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (13:08.762)
I really don't care who you date with when you grow up, right? I'm terrified, don't get me wrong, but I don't care. I don't care as long as they're good people and they treat you nice. It doesn't matter skin color, language, origin, it doesn't matter. As long as they're... Don't start it early.
Teri Holland (13:11.931)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (13:24.261)
Yeah. What if he drives a Tesla? Just throwing it out there.
Yahel Demeter (13:35.422)
Don't start it.
Teri Holland (13:37.051)
So
Yahel Demeter (13:41.454)
No, no, I need to go back. I said three things. First of all, three layers, right? Three levels. First level is personal values. If you're a good person, if you're kind, if you, how you treat other people, just go with this person to somewhere, to a restaurant or something, see how that person treats others. Okay? First level. Second level is business values.
Teri Holland (13:57.22)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (14:11.444)
Are they attentive to details if it's important for you? Right? What's the level of content? What's the level of knowledge? Right? That's the second. It's less important by the way than the first. Okay. The third, the third level that I think completes everything is the vision. Where do we want to take this? Does this person, you know, one time
Teri Holland (14:24.729)
Yeah, I agree.
Teri Holland (14:31.963)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (14:36.702)
a client, a very big company from from BC asked me to write a strategic plan. One of my first clients here asked me when we when we arrived to Canada asked me to write a business growth plan and I wrote a very and I'm telling you Terry it was good. It was solid solid good because I need to prove myself. mean it was not it was not it was not easy and I was very proud of it.
Teri Holland (14:52.621)
Nice, nice, I bet.
Teri Holland (15:05.742)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (15:06.574)
And I presented this business plan, this business growth plan, and they told me that's a very good plan, but we are so comfortable in where we are. We're not going to implement it. So what did you pay me for? Why did you spend so much time and money for that? And they told me just to know options. And you know what? In hindsight, I accept it. It's perfectly fine. To be honest, I was mad.
Teri Holland (15:16.708)
Hello.
Teri Holland (15:21.262)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (15:28.729)
Wow.
Wow, yeah.
Teri Holland (15:35.728)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (15:35.916)
Okay, but now a few years after, I understand it. I understand it. So you need to know exactly who you are talking with. What are their goals? What they want to do.
Teri Holland (15:43.139)
Interesting.
Teri Holland (15:47.131)
Yeah. Okay. Good.
Yahel Demeter (15:52.684)
Okay, three levels.
Teri Holland (15:54.467)
Yeah. Yeah. Can you repeat them one more time?
Yahel Demeter (15:57.208)
Sure, personal, business, future plans or goals or whatever.
Teri Holland (16:03.461)
perfect. What would you say is one value you would never compromise on in a partnership?
Yahel Demeter (16:11.488)
in which of the levels.
Teri Holland (16:14.563)
Any of them. Just one that would be like a complete deal breaker. You wouldn't compromise it. Nice. That's what I thought you would say, but I was curious. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (16:18.766)
Good person, good person.
Yahel Demeter (16:24.034)
Yeah, in business, in the second level, by the way, to be attention to details. And in the third level is that someone wants to go, someone wants to think outside of the box. Because I can't, I mean, I really can't walk with people, with comfortable people. You know what I mean? Does it make sense?
Teri Holland (16:28.346)
Hmm.
Teri Holland (16:36.303)
Nice. Nice.
Teri Holland (16:43.471)
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. I was actually just having a conversation with a client this morning about the dangers of comfort. Yeah. And I shared with her the, the frog analogy that you put a frog in a pot of water and he's comfortable and you just keep gradually increasing the temperature and he'll be comfortable and he'll adapt. And then at 99 degrees, he's comfortable. He's fine. And at a hundred degrees, he's dead.
and it happens that quickly and that really hit home for her when we were discussing that, the dangers of comfort.
Yahel Demeter (17:18.914)
The dangers of business stagnation, by the way.
Teri Holland (17:21.357)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, we're very adaptable people. Yeah. Yeah. So what would a... How would you know if a business partnership is successful? What are some markers that say that it's working?
Yahel Demeter (17:34.552)
that it's working. mean, yeah, because I tell you what, business partnership needs to tick three boxes. The first one is financial goals, not necessarily by importance, right? Financial goals that it is smooth, okay? And I'm not talking about arguments or disagreements or...
Teri Holland (17:36.581)
Just that.
Teri Holland (17:49.093)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (17:59.328)
It's okay. And you know, and you know me, I argue when I, when I disagree with you about something, I will try to convince you or you try to convince me, but we'll talk about it's not argument argument, right? But we'll, we'll talk about it. I won't, I won't leave things not, not spoke unspoken. Okay. so, so I think that that
Teri Holland (17:59.354)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (18:08.154)
I know. No, no. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (18:24.974)
I lost the line of thought.
Teri Holland (18:29.179)
Oh, how do you know when the business partnership is working? Yeah, the three things.
Yahel Demeter (18:29.454)
connect me back. Okay, yeah, three things. First of all, financial goals. Second is that it is smooth, okay? And third, that you are not disappointed.
Teri Holland (18:44.921)
Hmm. That's a big one.
Yahel Demeter (18:46.306)
Okay. Because so many things will, so many things, can squeeze so many factors, so many situations into that box of disappointment that it works.
Teri Holland (18:56.975)
Yeah. I have to say that terrifies me, by the way. The idea of disappointing you is terrifying to me. It's one of my biggest fears. It's good. It is good. it's, Yeah, we're...
Yahel Demeter (19:04.448)
Same, same, but it's Yeah? And if you remember one of our last, not arguments, but arguments, I wrote you, Terry, I'm not mad, I'm not disappointed, okay? I'm not anything, I just want to say it. You remember it, right? So, yeah, so just transparency, just be transparent about it.
Teri Holland (19:15.707)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (19:23.131)
I do remember, yeah.
Teri Holland (19:29.861)
Yeah, yeah, that's important. Okay, so when it comes to decision making in a partnership, how do you think decisions should be made in a way that is fair and good for all parties involved?
Yahel Demeter (19:45.138)
I think that every business partnership, it doesn't need to be written. But every business partnership needs to have some sort of decision-making protocol. That both sides will understand, or more than both sides, all sides will understand how decisions are made. For example, you know that if you want to post something, you know exactly what they will be okay with and don't need to ask me.
Teri Holland (19:50.596)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (20:13.75)
and what needs my attention, right? That's decision-making protocol. If I, for example, I add testimonials to the website, I don't ask you, right? But if I add a page, if I add a workshop, if I add something significant, I will ask you before I post it, right? That's decision-making protocols. So I think that even if they are not written,
Teri Holland (20:27.16)
No. No.
Yahel Demeter (20:43.264)
All sides should know how decisions are made. What should I discuss daily before I do?
Teri Holland (20:50.789)
Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of written, how important do you think it is to have a partnership agreement?
Yahel Demeter (21:00.216)
Very important.
Teri Holland (21:01.101)
Yeah, agreed. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (21:03.234)
Very important, but.
Loyals will hate me for saying that.
and many others maybe, not hate me but strongly disagree with me, I feel that
Let me say it this way. If we're not talking about investment or intellectual property or a very unique business idea that you need to protect, I am not sure that having an agreement right from the start is the right way. I think that you should have an agreement once things become more serious because first of all,
Teri Holland (21:49.221)
Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (21:50.232)
you don't know if it will reach that phase and you want to save your money. Okay, that's the first thing. The second is usually, I'll give you this example, NDA. Have you ever signed an NDA? Okay, in the startup industry, I think I signed over 100 NDAs over the years, or even much more than that when I think.
Teri Holland (21:52.763)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, agreed.
Teri Holland (22:14.885)
Wow.
Yahel Demeter (22:20.778)
Over 100. Now, everyone will tell you that an NDA doesn't stand. I mean, you can't prove anything with NDA, but you just sign people about an NDA. And NDA, by the way, it's non-disclosure agreement, right? That if I have an idea and I want to talk about it with you, you will sign the NDA just so I feel protected. That if you do something with the idea without me, I can sue you or something like that.
But the thing is that people don't understand that this NDA brings so much stress and noise and misalignment into the picture because I feel, okay, I signed an NDA. Now I'm not sure what I can say or what I shouldn't say. Or maybe if I give that person an idea now, maybe if I really help that person, maybe I should sign them also on an NDA because it's my idea now, right? So...
Teri Holland (23:11.931)
Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (23:15.502)
If I expand their idea, I develop their idea, is it mine now? Is it both of us? Okay. So yes, I'm a consultant at the end of the day. So it's my job to give you ideas. That's what you pay me for. But I give you ideas after the payment. After I get paid, that's what I get in return.
Teri Holland (23:24.24)
Right.
Teri Holland (23:39.003)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (23:43.994)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (23:44.672)
I mean, I say very bluntly, right? It doesn't work like that. And this is not how I think, by the way, and you know me, right? I'll give you ideas just like that. But the thing is that it brings so much stress and noise into the system and it actually affects the opinion of the other person. Okay? By the way, side note, it's not connected even to business partnerships, but when you have an idea,
Teri Holland (23:47.001)
Yeah, it's perfect. It's perfect.
I know, yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Teri Holland (24:01.637)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (24:13.206)
and you're afraid to share it, you keep it close to your chest, just understand that maybe you got it wrong and the opinion of the other people will actually help you to get it right. Okay, just remember that.
Teri Holland (24:25.827)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (24:30.992)
Yep.
Teri Holland (24:34.469)
Yeah, I actually had a guest on who talked about that very thing. He talked about bringing ideas into the marketplace, like how to actually create a product. And he talked about that same thing where he said people are afraid to talk about it, but he's like, you need to talk about it to validate whether this is a good product or not. You need the feedback. So he was like, and people, yeah. And he said, most people are not going to steal your idea and run with it. It's a lot of work. So, but you need to be able to talk about it. Exactly. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (24:52.632)
Smart guy.
Yahel Demeter (24:58.424)
Yeah. And people don't have the expertise that you have. Yeah.
Teri Holland (25:05.102)
Yeah. So back to the partnership agreement. So you had mentioned waiting until later in the process, which I fully agree with. But I just want to add on another, sometimes, no, but sometimes, yeah. Yeah. I had on another guest who's a contract lawyer.
Yahel Demeter (25:20.28)
Sometimes, not in all cases, sometimes, yeah. Most times.
Teri Holland (25:30.563)
And her advice was so simple. She said, just go on to chat GPT, type in what are the 20 questions business partners should answer. She's like, sit down, put yourselves in a room, sit down, go through all 20 questions, document all of your answers and what you agree to. And she's like, that's what you need to start with. That's it. She's like, you don't need to pay a lawyer at the beginning. You don't need that. You just need to decide what happens if someone wants to exit. What happens?
Yahel Demeter (25:50.24)
Awesome. That's such a nice advice.
Yahel Demeter (25:58.184)
What happens when?
Teri Holland (25:59.323)
what happens when and just answer all these questions and she's like, just do that and you're covered. Type it up, sign it. That's it. Very good advice and saves people a lot of money. Cause I think that's why a lot of people don't get a partnership agreement is because of the legal fees that they think, well, I don't want to spend this money. I think that's one reason. I think the other reason is that they're avoiding the difficult conversations.
Yahel Demeter (26:08.695)
Smart advice. Smart advice. Yeah. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (26:22.934)
Yeah, they bring noise into the system.
Teri Holland (26:25.327)
Yeah, yeah, but it's a lot harder to have those conversations when things go wrong later and you don't have an agreement. yeah. Okay, so let's talk about disagreements. What happens when there's a disagreement? How do you handle it respectfully?
Yahel Demeter (26:30.306)
I agree, I agree, I agree.
Yahel Demeter (26:38.765)
That's.
Yahel Demeter (26:43.576)
Fight!
Teri Holland (26:44.475)
Fight? Just put on the boxing gloves and go for it? I would lose every time.
Yahel Demeter (26:48.706)
Yeah. Nah.
Yahel Demeter (26:55.18)
not sure. But let's talk about it. These are the arguments. What do want to know?
Teri Holland (26:56.699)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (27:00.187)
Well, what are your thoughts on how partners should handle a disagreement?
Yahel Demeter (27:06.67)
I about it. You know how I handle disagreements. I just talk about them. If something bothers me, I just talk about it. I say, this bothered me. And I always say, by the way, always how to fix it and whether there are consequences or not. For example, I will say, it bothered me that you did this. I think that next time we should do that. It won't affect anything else, but I just wanted you to know.
Teri Holland (27:15.973)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (27:24.089)
Mm.
Teri Holland (27:28.912)
Yep.
Yahel Demeter (27:35.636)
That's how I phrase disagreement when I talk about it. On the other hand, can tell you, from now on, I think that I will be more cautious about what I say or how I say it, just to make sure that we won't have the same. So I think that what we disagree about, how we fix it, or at least one way to fix it, and whether there are consequences or not. Because it's not always...
Teri Holland (27:39.611)
True. True.
Teri Holland (27:57.797)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (28:05.378)
that not always we have consequences,
Teri Holland (28:08.953)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think it's important in any sort of relationship when you're dealing with a disagreement is to look at, okay, this is how I see it, but this isn't necessarily the only way to see it and be open to that other person's perspective and how they view things. And this is coming from NLP to always keep in mind that every behavior is based on good intentions. So that if you can keep that frame in your mind that this person has
good intentions. They see it differently. I might not understand why they see it that way, but I know their intentions are good. And if I can keep that in mind, they have good intentions with this. It makes it a lot easier to be open to hearing what they have to say.
Yahel Demeter (28:53.326)
tell you, you know my friend Jackie, right? So Jackie is, people don't know Jackie. Jackie is one of my, one of my best friends. He's a realtor, but he's a very, he's different. He's almost, the conversations with him are deep, are deep. When I came to Canada, he helped me a lot. And one of the,
Teri Holland (28:55.418)
Yes.
Teri Holland (29:02.533)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (29:15.728)
Nice.
Yahel Demeter (29:22.19)
first tips he gave me was never assume. Yehela will teach you two words now. Never assume. Okay? So also in this context, never assume. Never assume that you know what the other side thinks, how the other side feels. And it's not only in business partnership, by the way. It's about marriage, partnership with your friends, even with your kids.
Teri Holland (29:33.53)
Nice.
Teri Holland (29:39.397)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (29:52.244)
Never assume that you know what they feel.
Teri Holland (29:52.272)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yep. I think that's great advice.
Yahel Demeter (29:59.468)
And yeah, I never assume it's one of the things that I remember. I will probably remember for the rest of my life, but never assume.
Teri Holland (30:08.955)
That's good. That is very good advice. Good. Okay, so do want to talk about the red flags?
Yahel Demeter (30:19.426)
going back to the never assume, you remember after one of the workshop, we had a disagreement and remember what I told you, I don't know what led you to do this and that, but this is how it came through. This is how I felt. That's how I practice never assume. Because if I thought about it for some time, I would assume something.
Teri Holland (30:20.441)
Not yet? Okay.
Teri Holland (30:25.603)
Yes.
Teri Holland (30:34.305)
yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. Yeah.
Teri Holland (30:39.236)
Okay.
Yahel Demeter (30:48.687)
and it will make me form an opinion about it. And it will make me defensive probably.
Teri Holland (30:51.279)
Yep.
Yeah, yeah. And in NLP, we would say respect the other person's model of the world, that everyone has their own model and you can never fully step into another person's model of the world. You can hear them describe it, you can get information from them, but you never...
can fully understand what it's like to be in someone else's model of the world and to see things through their eyes. And so if you can just respect that everyone has their own model that they're working from, their own operating system. And in fact, if you could, if we could pull you out of yours and plunk you into someone else's, you wouldn't even recognize where you were. The world would look so drastically different to you. And so when you have people, whether it's a business partnership or any relationship coming from their own models of the world,
with very good intentions for their behavior and feeling like their behavior is correct. And if you can keep that perspective, I think it makes things a lot smoother.
Yahel Demeter (31:55.411)
That's very true. think that everyone has their own operating system and the model of the world.
Teri Holland (31:59.886)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Red flags. What are the red flags we need to look for?
Yahel Demeter (32:12.526)
There are many, so I'll to...
There are many avoidance of conflict, for example, is a major. We talked about it. Never avoid a conflict. When you have something to say, say it, make sure that if your business partners is the right business partner for you, they will understand it will be okay. I think that another one that we mentioned already is misaligned exit strategies or what happens when someone wants to
Teri Holland (32:19.492)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (32:22.927)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (32:34.703)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (32:43.899)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (32:47.286)
wants to quit, wants to end this business. I think that for me, a warning sign will be a secretive behavior. Okay. When I feel that I don't know everything. Now it's okay that I don't know everything, right? I don't need to know everything. But when I feel that something that is connected to me somehow and I feel is secretive, I mean...
Teri Holland (32:49.945)
Yeah. Yep.
Teri Holland (32:58.851)
Hmm, yeah.
Teri Holland (33:06.521)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (33:16.11)
This would be a relief for me. Ego. Ego dominance is also a very big relief.
Teri Holland (33:18.671)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (33:22.095)
Yep.
Teri Holland (33:26.245)
What would that look like? How would you describe that?
Yahel Demeter (33:30.152)
it's my way or the highway or I know best, right? Or, yeah, something that will give you the feeling that you don't know enough, you're not good enough, you don't know enough, let me lead the way.
Teri Holland (33:31.888)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Teri Holland (33:44.827)
Hmm.
Yahel Demeter (33:49.134)
But I also give you the opposite of ego. For example, how many times, Terry, did I tell you these exact words? Terry, this is what I think we should do, but it's your decision, but it's our decision, but we need to think about it. Okay? Now, in some of the times, I knew when I said that I know better. I knew, but still I didn't tell you that.
Teri Holland (34:07.301)
Yeah, many, times.
Yahel Demeter (34:19.054)
We had a conversation around it. Sometimes, by the way, I thought I can give you an example later if you want. I thought that I know better and you knew better actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri Holland (34:26.035)
yeah, yeah.
Teri Holland (34:31.131)
I'm so curious what that was. Yeah. Well, I can think of a time, I won't give specifics, where you did know better and we went with my decision and it was definitely the wrong decision.
Yahel Demeter (34:44.558)
But it happens there, it happens. mean, it's a part of life. You make mistakes.
Teri Holland (34:49.179)
No, it is. is. I think you also learn what each other's strengths are. At least that's what I see. I know, for example, that you are a much better judge of character than I am. But I've learned that by making mistakes. So I know now that if you say, this is not the person we're working with, that I need to listen to that because I'm wired to see
Yahel Demeter (35:03.15)
It's true.
Teri Holland (35:17.495)
I trust very quickly and easily and I default to seeing the best parts of a person and it's easy for me to overlook the red flags. And so now that I know that about how you work, I know that if you see a red flag in someone that I need to listen to that because I don't have that same level of discernment with people that you have.
Yahel Demeter (35:38.836)
You know, for example, something that is your strength that I usually listen to you is how to say things. What is the right approach? Because for me, as you know, I have two factors that combine into the perfect storm here. First of all, English is not my first language, surprising. Second, I'm very direct. I always was.
Teri Holland (35:48.71)
Teri Holland (35:53.413)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (35:58.959)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (36:05.327)
Yes. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (36:08.334)
I'm very blunt, right? So this combination of telling what you think and not necessarily choosing the right words can be deadly.
Teri Holland (36:18.907)
Yeah.
Understandably, yeah. Yeah, but also it's also a good quality too.
Yahel Demeter (36:27.534)
To some extent, yes.
Teri Holland (36:29.635)
I think so. think your directness is a very good quality.
Yahel Demeter (36:32.782)
I agree with you, but I can tell you that there are people who don't know how to handle it. And it's not fair to expect everyone to know how to handle directness.
Teri Holland (36:39.109)
Yeah, yeah, can see that.
Teri Holland (36:47.641)
Yeah, especially people if they've grown up in an environment or they're used to passive aggressive communication. So if that was how they grew up or if that's their way that they communicate, they will often perceive directness as aggression. And they think that they're being attacked and they're not being attacked, it's just direct. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (37:01.806)
True, true.
Yeah, being direct. I remember one of my first clients here. She asked me for my opinion about, I think I told you this story maybe a hundred times. She told me my opinion about, she asked for my opinion about her website. So I gave her my opinion about her website, which wasn't bad by the way. It wasn't good either, but it wasn't bad, right? And she thought it's bad. So I went over her website with her section by section.
Teri Holland (37:22.096)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (37:28.644)
Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (37:35.438)
This is wrong, this is how you fix it. This is wrong, this is how you fix it. That was very direct. I didn't know, I still don't know how to go around the bush, how to sugarcoat things, how to serve them right. So it felt to her, I guess, right? Like I'm attacking her or something. And she know, yeah, hell, I appreciate your opinion, but you're killing me here.
Teri Holland (37:39.547)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (37:49.229)
sugar coat.
Teri Holland (37:53.616)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (37:57.595)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (38:03.565)
Aww. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (38:04.526)
And once she said it, immediately asked her, but you asked for it. No, I asked for your opinion. But I gave you my opinion. Yeah, but you need to know how to say things. And she was right. I still do it, she was right.
Teri Holland (38:19.419)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that from our very first meeting. That was the first thing you told me was you have to know I'm very direct.
Yahel Demeter (38:35.874)
Yeah. And then what I told you, Terry, this is your problem and this is how you fix it.
Teri Holland (38:40.495)
Yeah, which is perfect. That's what I wanted. Yeah, that was perfect. Yeah, any other red flags people should be watching out for?
Yahel Demeter (38:42.978)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (38:50.35)
Uhhhh
Yahel Demeter (38:55.746)
I'm thinking about the disparities, right? when things are... I know, I know. Boundaries, time boundaries, okay? Working schedule. For example, I don't work in the evenings, you don't work in the mornings, I don't work weekends, you do work only. Things like that. You need to know when is the right time to approach your business partner and what time is only for emergencies.
Teri Holland (39:01.243)
Hmm.
Teri Holland (39:06.253)
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (39:23.301)
you
Yahel Demeter (39:23.598)
Also, think that, let's call it income to effort, disparity. For example, one person might think that we are putting too much effort in something that doesn't produce enough money, and the other one will say, okay, it will produce us money, so let's put the effort in. So, is like this, I think.
Teri Holland (39:33.275)
Okay.
Teri Holland (39:52.591)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And going back to the time boundaries, 8 a.m. is the time to text.
Yahel Demeter (40:02.126)
I do. Yeah.
Teri Holland (40:04.953)
I didn't realize I did that until you pointed that out one day that it's 8 a.m. is when I typically send you a message.
Yahel Demeter (40:11.003)
That's where you usually start texting, guys.
Teri Holland (40:13.465)
Yeah, hopefully that's okay.
Yahel Demeter (40:16.428)
Yeah, I'm usually up from five.
Teri Holland (40:21.103)
What do you think? So if we look at our partnership, what do you think makes our partnership strong? Because this was actually one of the questions we got in our Q &A is someone asked how they can have a strong partnership like ours. So what do we do well? Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (40:32.63)
It's effortless. It's effortless. The dynamic between us is natural. When we disagree or when we're just like married couple, but in business, right? It's natural. You feel that you can say whatever you want. You can feel that you won't be judged. That if I feel down sometimes,
Teri Holland (40:37.691)
Mm I agree.
Teri Holland (40:44.015)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (40:54.331)
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (41:00.34)
I know that I can talk to you about it. You do the same and we both experienced that. Although it doesn't look from the smiling video, sometimes we have bad days.
Teri Holland (41:10.619)
Yep, we are human.
Yahel Demeter (41:14.764)
Yeah. And then we go to the patch, we sit in the sun, we eat, we drink, and we suddenly feel better.
Teri Holland (41:20.931)
Yep, exactly, exactly. It's perfect. Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (41:25.166)
Yeah. So I think that's just, if I need to choose one effortless dynamic that you don't need to make an effort to have good dynamic.
Teri Holland (41:36.269)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree with that.
Yahel Demeter (41:40.876)
I think that once this is cleared, you're good to go in so many other aspects. it holds many things inside.
Teri Holland (41:48.318)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then how about, how do you know when a partnership isn't working and it's time to pull the plug?
Yahel Demeter (41:59.928)
I will answer something that people won't be happy to hear, but you feel it. You feel it. When something doesn't work, you feel it. Most of the times, you don't want to listen to that feeling. You know, for example, before Anat, I was married. I was married once for less than a year. Something that was never meant to last.
Teri Holland (42:05.101)
Okay. Yeah.
Teri Holland (42:13.915)
Right.
Teri Holland (42:26.746)
Yeah.
Yahel Demeter (42:28.716)
I mean, I appreciate her and everything, right? But we were not supposed to be a married couple. And we both knew it before we got married. We both knew it. But for some reason that it was too late to stop the train and we both felt obligated. But when something doesn't work, you know it, Terry. Just like, just like the opposite, right? When
Teri Holland (42:37.209)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (42:50.799)
Yep.
Yahel Demeter (42:57.48)
things feel bumpy and they still walk, you also feel it, that it's just a bump.
Teri Holland (42:59.546)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (43:04.953)
Yeah. Yeah. And then what should they do if they find themselves in that position? What's their next step?
Yahel Demeter (43:08.3)
So.
Yahel Demeter (43:15.95)
Talk about it. End it.
Teri Holland (43:17.891)
Yeah, fair enough.
Yahel Demeter (43:19.564)
Before you end it, talk about it. Reflect what you feel because sometimes under the never assume role, Terry, never assume that you're right. Never assume that the other side is wrong. Never assume that this wasn't meant to be. Talk about it. Most of the times, your gut feeling was right, by the way. It's right. But talk about it and...
Teri Holland (43:27.952)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (43:34.747)
Mm-hmm.
Teri Holland (43:46.011)
I'm just remembering what you said about gut feelings in one of our previous videos. you go ahead. No, no, go for it.
Yahel Demeter (43:48.206)
I knew that this is why you're laughing. Do you want to repeat it? Or it's too rude for you?
So I said once and Terry quoted it everywhere, everywhere that someone asked us a question about what you do with the business idea. Well, no, no, no. When you implement a business, yeah, I have a gut feeling that yeah. So the context was business ideas and the conversation was around gut feeling. I have a gut feeling that
Teri Holland (44:01.019)
you
Hahaha.
Yahel Demeter (44:25.656)
this business idea would work, something like that, right?
Teri Holland (44:28.61)
like that yeah.
Yahel Demeter (44:32.588)
And gut feeling, these are two words that you don't say next to a strategist. You don't. It's something that you don't do. Right? So I said that with the gut feelings, you don't start a business. You go to the bathroom. That's what I said.
Teri Holland (44:39.899)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (44:52.547)
I love that so much. It is a good one. It is a good one.
Yahel Demeter (44:54.294)
It's good, it's a good one.
And it's true, it's a right one also. Again, very rough.
Teri Holland (44:59.887)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri Holland (45:05.435)
But true, it's true, it's true. Any last thoughts on business partnerships before we close up?
Yahel Demeter (45:07.096)
But true.
Yahel Demeter (45:13.26)
Make sure that your visions are aligned. We didn't talk about it, about vision. Okay, maybe you can give tips about vision and how you align visions, but I think that the number one killer of business partnerships are misaligned visions.
Teri Holland (45:18.747)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (45:32.047)
Yeah, I would, yeah, I agree with that. And I would say, you know, in order to align your visions, you have to sit down and get really clear about where your business is going, what you're both picturing, what you see, but also what it means to you to get there. Because someone might say, I want, let's give you an example. Someone might say, it's important to me that we,
we become millionaires or that we make a lot of money. Well, what does that mean to you? What is the idea of that mean to you and what's driving you behind it? I think that's even sometimes more important than the vision. So you might say, well, we want to become the leading expert in this field. We want our brand to be known as the leading experts in this field. Well, what does that mean to you behind that? And what would it mean to be a leading expert? And what is a leading expert to you? And get to the meaning behind the words that you're using to talk about your vision.
because then you'll see if you're really aligned.
Yahel Demeter (46:30.854)
And also what would you do to get there? Right.
Teri Holland (46:34.381)
Mm-hmm. And that too, what are you willing to do to get there? You know, I see this a lot. don't do it anymore, but I used to do a lot of couples coaching. And I would do values alignments with couples, which is very similar of like, what's important to you in this relationship? What's important to you? And seeing if their values matched. And so they might both say, well, love is important to me. And so they...
Yahel Demeter (46:58.466)
What What is Love?
Teri Holland (46:59.841)
would seem to match, right? Like if we just looked at the word like love and love, okay both people say love is important, but what does that mean to you? And it would unlock a whole layer of meaning that could be completely worlds apart. One party might say, well love means that we spend a lot of quality time together and go on adventures. Yeah, yeah. And the other person might say love to me is that
Yahel Demeter (47:17.966)
More grounded. More grounded.
Teri Holland (47:24.603)
I come home to a clean house every day after work and that makes me feel love. And so they're completely different interpretations of what that actually means. And the same is true in business partnerships is to make sure that where it is that you're going and that vision that you have, that you're aligned not just at the surface level, but what does that mean to you? What are the layers of meaning underneath? What it is that you're talking about and are you aligned all the way through?
Yahel Demeter (47:51.468)
I completely agree.
Teri Holland (47:53.271)
Mm-hmm. I'm glad. I'm glad. sometimes it happens. Sometimes you agree.
Yahel Demeter (47:56.686)
Sometimes it happens.
Yahel Demeter (48:02.605)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (48:03.909)
Well, thanks again for coming on. It's always fun to have you. We talk all the time, but it's always fun to have you on the show.
Yahel Demeter (48:11.456)
And even this podcast, it was even initiated, right? Someone asked too many questions about partnerships. You said, let's record a podcast. The most personal is the most universal. If something bothers you, it bothers so many other people.
Teri Holland (48:17.573)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (48:24.205)
Yeah, and that was at about 11 o'clock today. So here we are.
Teri Holland (48:40.527)
That is a very good point. I like that.
Yahel Demeter (48:42.734)
Yeah. Many startup founders will tell you exactly the same thing. That's how you form a business idea. The most personal is the most universal. That's why, for example, if someone asks you, how do I come up with the next big thing, right? The next giant business. So they should start by, that's a different episode, but they should start with just writing.
Teri Holland (48:48.858)
Interesting.
interesting.
Teri Holland (49:08.761)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yahel Demeter (49:13.006)
their pain points during the week, right? I didn't have a dispenser for the soap next to the kitchen sink. I didn't have where to put my car keys when I came back home. The floor was dirty in my study room and I hate cleaning it three times a day. I don't know. You start by mapping and then you see what's recurring. That's how you start.
Teri Holland (49:21.349)
you
Teri Holland (49:30.885)
Yeah.
Teri Holland (49:35.451)
very cool. I think that's a whole other episode we should do. Yeah, yeah.
Yahel Demeter (49:42.329)
yeah. If people will want to hear it, will gladly talk.
Teri Holland (49:48.603)
Okay, so if you guys, if you wanna hear it, then you have to let me know and Yehah will come back and we'll talk about it.
Yahel Demeter (49:55.49)
Let her in now.
Teri Holland (49:56.741)
Yeah, let me know.
Yahel Demeter (49:58.542)
the subject for this, nevermind. I won't say it.
Teri Holland (50:04.055)
Okay, all right, sounds good. Thank you again.
Yahel Demeter (50:05.741)
Yeah
Sure, good to have you.
